The Artist's Work Ethic
The Artist's Work Ethic
Episode 85 - Actor Steven Wiig
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Steven Wiig is a filmmaker, musician and actor best known for his roles in Sean Penn's "Into The Wild", Gus Van Sant's "Milk" and James Franco's childhood-inspired "Yosemite". He’s also been part of the Metallica inner circle for decades working as a videographer and photographer, assisting Lars, and a number of other roles.
And he said, because I'm writing a movie right now, I'm about to start shooting this movie called Into the Wild, and I think you'd be good for something in that movie. So I was like, I was just like, you don't say no to that. Like whether I was ready to do that or not, or even in the headspace to do it, I was just like, you I could not say like nah.
SPEAKER_00Welcome to the Artist Work Ethic Podcast. I'm Mike Pielak. I'm an actor, screenwriter, and filmmaker, and in this podcast, I talk to people from across the arts about their process, habits, and work ethic. You can find me on Instagram at the Artists Work Ethics Podcast. And I'd love to hear from you at the Artist Work Ethics Podcast at gmail.com. Today's show is Stephen Wick. Steven is a filmmaker, detective, and actor, best known for his roles in John and Into the Wild, Scott Man, Milk, and James Franco's Templet. He's also been part of the Metallica Inner Circle for decades, working as a videographer, photographer, artistic art, and serving in a number of other roles. Into the Wild might be my favorite movie of all time. And so it was really cool to hear what Steven had to say about the casting and the making of that movie from his insider perspective. Enjoy. All right, Steve, thank you for coming on with me today.
SPEAKER_01Thank you, Mike. Appreciate it. Thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_00So going back to some of the formative moments in your life, you know, before you ended up in music and film and acting, do you think the drive and work ethic that you have that it takes to succeed in these things comes from how you were raised or some other experience in your life?
SPEAKER_01It's a great question. Because I, you know, the word like work ethic, when I think of work ethic, I always feel like I kind of had a shitty work ethic growing up, like, you know, work to me was like, you know, I worked like at a grocery store, um, bagging groceries. Uh, I worked on like a roadside crew, like picking up grass and stuff like that. And all of my experiences during during those early like work years were um just me kind of somewhere else in my head in this sort of like creative wishing space to to be doing other things or doing creative things. So I mean I was a I was a good worker, but I was, you know, I'd kind of I wouldn't goof off, but I would find ways to make work um less painful for myself and others around me. So it was often kind of uh silly, I guess, or just kind of trying to help make the time go by. So yeah, work ethic is not really a a word I associate with myself too much, but but when it comes to the the art and the music and films and things like that, that is so driven by passion that it it it makes it appear that it's hard work or something. It's so you know, like and I do all these different things, you know, playing in bands and recording music and films and producing films and acting and films and and art and drawing and digital work and stuff like that. Um, I can tend to go in these like little kind of little streaks in each of those categories for periods of time, and it's almost like I'll shift into the other one, and it's purely driven again by like what I'm passionate about at that time. However, growing up, I I grew up in Upper Michigan, which is uh right on Lake Superior. It's the forgotten part of Michigan way up top. The UP. And um yeah, exactly. The UP. There's a lot of Finnish folks there who came over, my great-grandfather included, um, who migrated there. And um there's a word, I think there's a couple movies on it now. It's uh the word is Sisu, S-I-S-U. It's a word that's commonly used up there um amongst the the current current locals, meaning um it's kind of like this determination or like uh tenacity in like rough times, like this ability to kind of like persevere. Um that's a big word there. I remember growing up all the time, and even when I go back there, I'm gonna be back there next week. Um, I hear it then too. So there's something in the in the culture, in the air about like this sort of like you know, weathering these crazy winters and you know, just like persevering through tough economic times or tough environmental times or whatever, mean you know, being like the the crazy winters and stuff. That for some reason feels you know kind of embedded in me, so that that could be in there. You know, there's also just this kind of like local pride, you know, they call it uh youper pride, the the upper peninsula of the UP, folks are referred to as youpers, and there's all this like youper strong, youper pride. There's almost it feels like there's this built-in like communal, like you know, that that saying like when the tough when the going gets tough, the tough get going. There's like that kind of spirit, I guess. So I think there's some of that in there. My parents, you know, were pretty pretty pretty strict growing up. I was the first of four kids, so um, you know, I was like the the trial run, so to speak. So yeah, it was a little they were kind of strict on me, I guess. Um, and it was kind of a religious household at the time, too. So um, you know, there was a very sort of like structured environment that I was existing in, and then all this creative stuff was just like boiling over, and I was just you know probably looking for myself, like trying to find myself in this world that was kind of you know sports-driven or or you know, it wasn't a place where people were making movies and recording albums and you know this this kind of stuff. So um yeah, I felt like being there, I was I was living in this fantasy place, and that's kind of the first thing I did when I was able to relocate was go to places where I could engage in in those fantasies as like a as like work, you know.
SPEAKER_00Sure. And and speaking of work, you've worked with Sean Penn a couple of times on Into the Wild, which he directed, and in Milk acting opposite him. How have how has keeping positive relationships like that impacted your career?
SPEAKER_01It's everything, I guess.
SPEAKER_00You know, like were those two things connected in any way?
SPEAKER_01They were, they were so so I had I had become friends with Sean through um, you know, I live in Marin County, which is just outside of San Francisco, it's just across the bridge from San Francisco, across the Golden Gate Bridge. There's like an artist community here where there's like there's a lot of musicians. There's like, you know, Sammy Hagar, Talking Heads, Metallica, uh Robin Williams was here, Sean Robin, um George Lucas, uh the dead. It it's like um the Bay Area is not very big. It's it's not like LA where it's just expansive, it's limited by this, by by the water. So um like it just seems like eventually all the the artists and the creative types end up kind of like hanging out at the same places, go to the same events. Like it's pretty for a for like a being in such a big city, it's kind of small too. So it's I got to know Sean. Uh I hit it off with his wife uh really well. We we would we would joke around quite a bit at some of these like events where there's all these kind of I don't know where everybody's kind of busy and there's this all this attention being focused on. Let's say it was like a film thing for Sean or something like that. She and I would just kind of go off in the corner, kind of like when I was growing up, you know, when I was at like my job, we just kind of like go off in the corner and just goof around and talk in like silly accents and you know, like we're in spinal tap or something like that, and just just play around. So Sean said that that he would see that he would he would see us kind of like going into these characters, and he was like, Hey, one one time he was like, Hey, have you ever you ever thought about acting? And I was like, um kind of like I guess when I think back to like when I was like five years old, you know, that's what I wanted to do. I remember like taking a little tape recorder and recording um the television, recording like Rocky on TV, and then taking that into the bedroom and then like playing the tape back and like reenacting the scenes and the fights and stuff like that. And uh uh, anyways, he he he asked what I was interested in. I was kind of like, yeah, I I guess, but it's not really something I had been thinking about because I was working in the music industry primarily at that time. And um and he said, Because I'm writing a movie right now, I'm about to start shooting this movie called Into the Wild, and I think you'd be good for something in that movie. So I was like, I was just like, you don't say no to that. Like whether I was ready to do that or not, or even in the headspace to do it, I was just like, you I could not say like nah. I took on that opportunity. Filming of that movie was incredible, just so you know, just like this opened up this whole different world to me. Um and you know, Sean and I became great friends. Um, still he's still the uh pal. When we were to just to get back to your question, when we were doing a screening into the wild in the Bay Area, Gus Van Sant had come to watch the screening because he was courting Sean to play Harvey Milk. We we were all hanging out like after that screening and stuff, and he was like, Oh, I loved your scene. Um do you have any interest in this this milk project? And I was like, absolutely, like now I'm now I'm you know hooked, line, and sinker. So uh yeah, they were connected in that regard. And uh yeah, that was they were just some fantastic eye-opening experiences for me.
SPEAKER_00I think one of the one of the main kind of points that I would take away from that too is is your openness to saying yes to the first thing that you know might not have been in your comfort zone initially at that point, you know, if you were uh more musically focused. But the uh the you know, your your openness to saying yes kind of snowballed into uh all these other things that you've gotten to do since then.
SPEAKER_01100%. Yeah, yeah. When when life opportunities, you know, those are like signs to me, I guess, you know, especially as as I grow older and wiser. Um yeah, those are like, you know, as they say, like the green lights in in life, like kind of like hey, you know, an opportunity to go down a path that maybe you're destined to to go down. So yeah, I'm really big on um on yeah, staying saying yes to opportunities that you know, not everything, obviously, but something like that for sure.
SPEAKER_00Before we started recording, we're I was telling you how Into the Wild is one of my favorite movies of all time and been very influential on me. And that I thought your scene in there is such a pivotal, you know, turning point in the story that kind of, you know, obviously Emile Hirsch's character is already on his journey, but I felt like that moment really pushed him, you know, further out of the comfort zone that that character and and the the real life person, you know, ultimately took on that journey. And and you know, I'd love to hear a little bit more about that from your perspective.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I remember when I when I read the script, um Sean had said um he didn't tell me which role or anything, he just said read it and and pick a role. So I, you know, it's like oh okay. So, you know, I knew he wasn't tied about Chris McCandless or or like uh you know his sister or something, but um these a number of characters that kind of pop up in the story, and uh a couple of the other ones that I that I thought were pretty good didn't didn't either make it into the final cut or they didn't get filmed, I don't remember, but um there were a couple other kind of juicy ones that were cool. But this this ranger character jumped out at me, I think for a similar reason, because it felt like uh almost pun intended, it really like launches him into that journey. He's asking about if he can launch into this river, and I'm like, you know, in 13 years, sure. But uh, and he decides to do it anyways. Like I think it really set him off in that path to like it was a little bit of a rebellious move. Um, but it yeah, it really kind of set him into motion and kind of like no looking back after that point. And I remember talking to Sean and his editor as they were finishing the movie and putting it together, and they were they were kind of placing it a little bit, trying to figure out where they were gonna place it exactly in the film. And that that that discussion came up about um what its meaning was to the bigger picture of the story and that it should go in this sort of like pivotal place in the movie. And I thought I thought it fits in there at the perfect point, and I have nothing but fantastic memories of shooting that. I went to Alaska, like Sean also said, you know, like come come to hang out on the at the on the set, you know, like whenever you want, because we're he was traveling everywhere, you know, all over the place, Alaska and all over America and stuff. And uh he said, one place you have to come is is uh Alaska, like you have to see Denali in person. So you know, we went out to the bus and stuff like that, and uh that whole filmmaking experience was just uh revelation for me as a as an artist, and and that even more so as a human being. And Chris's story was so incredible. John Krakaur's book is so incredible. John, as a writer, I was honored to meet him. I got to know um Chris's family. I still keep in touch with his sister, and they actually have um connections to the UP. Chris's grandfather um lived there, and Chris would go to the UP in the summertime um to go and spend time in the outdoors with his grandfather.
SPEAKER_00Oh, interesting. Yeah. Um one of one of the names that you mentioned before was Metallica, and I think you were a personal assistant to Lars for a while. And you play in in a band called Papa Wheelie with Jason Newstead, who spent years in Metallica. What have you picked up from those guys along the way in terms of just mindset in the arts and you know just the persistence that it takes to uh you know achieve in in these types of careers?
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. I owe so much to those guys. I finished finished, I suppose, as Lars's assistant, but prior to that, I was filming shows for them all over the world. I was, you know, working with their fan club at one point. I um I was in the studio with the band, just not necessarily as Lars's guy, but just in the in the general band sense. And then in the later years, um I started to work with them individually, like at home um or in the in their studios or whatever when there were breaks and things like that. And then um after James came out of rehab, um they kind of they kind of individually they became more for individuals traveling on the road than like one group in one plane. So that's when I kind of shifted off to Lars mode, and it was him with him for several years. I was a kid coming out of college, and uh I kind of that was like the first thing that I did after school was like just sort of ran off on the road with those guys, and we hit it off. Um, I think you know, people are kind of well, how does that work? Like that's that's not just sort of like I'm gonna go and hang out with Metallica, and then you do. But I was um again, it's kind of that passion driven. I was just so the big thing about Metallica was I was really into how they did things, and they have the best management in the world, and a lot of the ideas that I was really gravitating towards in the bigger picture Metallica sense were were some of their their manager Peter Mensch's ideas, like concepts for albums and things like that. And I was just really eating that stuff up at that age and during those years. This was like early 90s, and uh, and I was just driven by the curiosity. I just wanted to like get in there and figure out this Metallica thing. So I I knew they were they were cool with their fans and stuff, and um they would kind of talk about like you know, just oh, we're easy to approach, we're chill dudes or whatever. So I started to go to some to some shows, and I would I knew kind of I kind of figured out like where where to to meet them or where to look out for where they might be hanging out, like say where the buses are or something like that. And then I remember there was another show where I just it was a smaller show, it wasn't like in like Chicago, but it was like Kalamazoo, Michigan or something. And I just remember after the show, I just circled the venue on foot, walked around the venue, went to the back of the venue, and there was a door, and I could see that there was like a meet and greet area where people were hanging out. And I just kind of hovered there for a little bit, and eventually that door opened, and I walked in that door, and then I hung out, and then I'm in this room hanging out with all the guys in Metallica again, and they're like, You're hey, you're back, what's up, man? So we kind of started to hit it off, and then at you know, at a certain point, Lars like, Hey man, you should come and uh you know, you should come work with us or come, you know, film some shows for me and you know, jump on a bus or whatever, and just like you know, because that was him with the band Motorhead. He said, You remind me of me with Lemmy. He's like, I used to do that with Lemmy, I would follow the bus around until they finally were like, Okay, we're sicky of following us around, join the team. My formative years, I mean, my 20s into my 30s, were I really feel like I learned a lot of work ethic through Metallica. Not just the band, but the people around them, their manager, um, managers, Qprime, uh, Zach Harman, who was a um, he's like their he's he's called their equipment manager, but he's so much more than that. He's kind of he's kind of the fifth member of Metallica for lack of a better term. He he just handles everything for those guys. I worked with him very closely for several years, and um he he taught me about being a father. I mean, he he wasn't teaching me any of this, but I was watching him and I was learning how to do it all. Like, um, you know, I was a runner in the studio, which is kind of like a production assistant, which is basically it's it's a new set of demands every not only every day, but like every 15 minutes or every hour is a new thing that's just coming at you. So I really learned to like like no is not really an answer, kind of back to your thing of saying yes, but it was like in in that job, it was like I loved the curveballs that would get thrown at me of these pinch situations, like we need this and we need it soon, and you know, the album's depending on it, and we need this part, or we need somehow we need to get this, or can you come in the studio and you know fix this thing or whatever?
SPEAKER_00And and you gotta be a problem solver, exactly.
SPEAKER_01And I absolutely love that. I just I thought it was it was so great, um, and so exciting, and just being in that world, you know, the problem solver role is not really like a no, I don't feel like doing that kind of a kind of a position. It's it's it's not whether we can do this or solve this or not, it's how and how quickly. I love that. So that was really stimulating to me. Um, just that kind of a role. Their work at, you know, when I think of work ethic, I think of Metallica, like like they really, they really work really hard um and hold themselves um accountable. You know, like they're kind of known for you back in the day, it was like, well, Metallica, the the party band, alcoholica. But they would they would they wouldn't touch a drop of anything until like the last note of, you know, I mean, at least for Lars, like you know, last note of the show or or whatever, like the whole day throughout the day, just work really, really hard. And then play kind of hard after that. But just uh it really was first and foremost, foremost about like treating that that thing, that Metallica, as the most valuable thing in the world, and and nothing should compromise it or get in the way of it. And it was just this giant big machine that just you know barrels around the planet. And uh yeah, it was really fun. I I loved working in the studio with them, especially. That was really fun during the creative process, you know, like as they're writing songs and trying out material and stuff like that, and being able to be in the room with that energy, that creative energy. And then yeah, like I said, just just in all aspects, watching how that, how that how that operation they become something way bigger than they were, like as a as a as an entity, as like a like a machine. And back then it was a little bit more intimate, I felt. It was a little, you know, like I kind of look back back at it with nostalgia and like you know, they only had like each guy had like one guitar pick design, and like James maybe played like two guitars, and now when I see him, it's like every show has like 15 different pick designs, and they've got like 30 guitars and stuff like that. I'm just you know, kind of just thinking back on all the simpler times, you know. But uh, but yeah, I still I still um enjoy hanging out with those guys and we're you know, family. I owe so much to them for those formative years of mine. It's just they really, really taught me a lot as as in the work world and again as a human being.
SPEAKER_00When you think of your your pursuits in the arts, thinking of acting or or film or music, what part of that quote unquote creative job is something you still have to force yourself to do every day?
SPEAKER_01I do have to do that. Most the the one that comes to my mind right off the bat is music. I'm always recording stuff. We you know, play in a couple bands, and you know, we've gone into recording studios, and then we kind of take take the basic tracks that we recorded in a professional recording studio, and then you know, I might work at home on some of the additional parts, either myself or with the other band members or whatever, but I'm thinking mostly with myself writing lyrics and then singing and any of that kind of stuff. I have a tendency to kind of like wait until the moment is right because I want the recording to be special or something. And I think what I've learned over time is I just gotta get, I just gotta set the time aside and just do it and like get you know, get in the in the workshop shed and just start, you know, like putting the pen to the paper and just like start doing it, and then it actually comes and it's either better or you know, whatever it was supposed to be. The lightning will eventually strike and connect and work out in the end, but it really is about just saying, like, all right, I'm sitting down and doing I gotta put the work in. It's like putting the time in and just it's easy to think like, oh, when I come up with this guitar part in my head, and you know, like then I'll do it. But realistically, that doesn't happen for me. So it only it only really happens when I just it's the either with lyrics like sitting down, you know, start writing and stuff starts to take shape and start trying out riffs or lines on the song. Um just just the doing, you know, just really getting in there and doing it.
SPEAKER_00And then you feel so much better when you force yourself to just sit down and and just start so that that could, you know, snowball to the next thing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. That's that's the work part. The the work pays off, I feel like I've I've never regretted doing that. In fact, I usually come up with better stuff than I thought I would, you know, in in those times where I just bunker down and hit it. So what's a goal that you still want to accomplish in your career? That's a great question. Because I don't, you know, the funny thing is I don't I don't really think in terms of goals. None of the things that I've done have been goals. They've been like what I was curious about or passionate about or found myself wrapped up in. I mean, I I wanna I just want to do more creative things in all these same categories with people that I enjoy working with, whether that's people I've worked with before that I enjoy with, or or making new friends or or coworkers in in going forward. More great experiences, whatever they may be, and you know, putting that energy forward and seeing where the paths take me. So I wish I had a better answer as far as the goal goes, but yeah.
SPEAKER_00No, that's great. Is there is there anything that you want to plug or talk about before we before we go?
SPEAKER_01Well, I play in a band called Radio Incognito right now. That's probably the like I'll just talk about the things that I'm currently active in, just for the just for being currently relevant. Radio Incognito is a band that um we have a bunch of stuff that we recorded in Joshua Tree, and then here at the plant recording studio in Sasolito, which is where where Fleetwood Mac and Stevie Wonder and Metallica have recorded. Um so excited about those. We're in we're in the work stage of of those those songs. It's a bunch of songs and a bunch of different recordings. So we're gonna figure out like if we're gonna do a singles or I want to do an album or albums, um, because I'm a big fan of the album format, like multiple songs that kind of have a little bit of a uh packaged journey showcase together. So there's that. I'm working with a friend, um Patrick Gillis, who was the director of this movie that I did called I'm Charlie Walker, which had um Mike Coulter, he's doing some of the Marvel stuff, and Monica Barbaro from uh the Bob Dylan movie is in there. That's a fun movie. That's a that's a that's a cool movie to check out. I'm Charlie Walker. We're starting on a new project or projects. We have a couple of things I just shot with Pat uh not long ago, and we uh we took this short into um uh the San Francisco Film Festival with the with the hopes of turning it into a feature film. So that's one iron in the fire there, and then the other one is um there's another story that we're gonna meet about here in the next week or so that he wants to pitch. And we I think we just got some funding green lit for that. So that should be going into motion here soon. So those are those is the kind of relevant recent projects that I've been involved in that are still kind of in in the making right now as we speak.
SPEAKER_00Hey, I I love I love irons in the fire. That's what I'm always I'm always trying to. I'm like, if I could just keep banging away at things, hopefully, you know.
SPEAKER_01For sure, yeah. Yeah, it's gotta be irons in the fire. For sure.
SPEAKER_00Awesome. Well, Steve, thank you for talking with me today.
SPEAKER_01I appreciate it, Mike. Thanks so much. Nice talking to you.
SPEAKER_00Thanks for listening. I hope you enjoyed this episode. Please subscribe if you aren't already. Come give me a like on Instagram at the Artists Work Ethic Podcast.